“Tarixdəki ən böyük kəşf cahilliyin kəşfidir”

Son illərin ən çox satılan və müzakirə edilən kitablarından biri də heç şübhəsiz “Heyvanlardan Tanrılara Sapiens:İnsan növünün qısa tarixi”-dir. Milyonlarla nüsxəsi satılan və 30-dan çox dilə tərcümə edilən kitabın yazarı, israilli tarixçi Yuval Noah Hariri “bu bizim hekayəmizdir” deyə biləcəyimiz bir mövzuya toxunub – İnsanın tarixinə.
Sadə dildə və maraqlı üslübda yazılan kitabın qısa zaman ərzində populyar qazanan yazarı Yuval Noah Haririnin Türkiyənin “Hürriyet” qəzetinə verdiyi müsahibədə tarixdən, yeni kitabından və gələcəkdən danışıb.
Müsahibənin tam mətnini təqdim edirik.

 

İllərdir yazılan bir mövzunu, insanlığın tarixini yazıb milyonlarla kitab satdınız. Bu sizin üçün də sürpriz oldumu?
– Həm də böyük sürpriz oldu. Yazdığımda sadəcə universitet tələbələrinin oxuyacağını zənn edirdim. Evdar xanımlardan təqaüdçülərə qədər hər təbəqədən insanların maraqlandığını görmək məni də həyəcanlandırdı.
Sizcə bu marağın səbəbi nə idi?
– Bir çox insan  mənə “Sapiens”dən qabaq tarixdən nifrət etdiyini demişdi. Tarixi ölmüş kralların, çoxdan unudulmuş müharibələrin darıxdırıcı katalogu kimi görürdülər. Kitabda tarixlə öz həyatları arasındakı əlaqəni kəşf etdilər. (ardı aşağıda)
sapiens
Necə bir əlaqə?
– Gündəlik münasibətləri götürək. İnsan cəmiyyətlərində fiziki güclə sosial güc arasında bir əlaqə yoxdur. Katolik kilsəsini düşünün, necə Papa seçilərdiniz? Digər rahibləri döyərək deyil əlbəttə, bunun yerinə sizi dəstəkləyənlərlə bir koalisiya qurarsınız. Hətta şimpanzelərdə də dominant erkək, dişilər və digər erkəklərlə bir koalisiya qurur, fiziki şiddətə əl atmır. Yani həm şimpanzelərdə, həm də insanlarda güc fiziki deyil sosial bacarıqlardan asılıdır.
Boş bir adaya düşsə şimpanzenin həyatda qalmaq şansının Homo Sapiensdən daha çox olduğunu deyirsiniz? Onminlərlə il keçib, şimpanzelər sağ qalmaq mövzusunda bizdən daha bacarıqlıdırlar?
– Baxır vəziyyətə. Bizi şimpanzelərdən üstün tutan sadəcə beynimiz deyil, bir çox beyni bir araya gətirə bilmək bacarığımızdır. Biz çoxlu xarici ilə birgə iş görə bilən tək məməliyik. Şimpanzenin qarşısına tək çıxanda və ya 10 insanla 10 şimpanzeni qarşılaşdıranda  şimpanzenin qazanmaq şansı daha çoxdur. Ama minə-min olsa qələbə Sapiensin olar.
Niyə?
 – Çünki min şimpanze bir araya gələndə effektli iş birliyi qura bilməz. 100 min şimpanzeni Wall Street-ə və ya Tiananmen Meydanına toplasanız xaos yaşanacaq. Ama eyni yerlərdə 100 min Sapiens şəbəkələr qurur, mitinqlər təşkil edir, idman yarışları keçirir. Elə buna görə Sapien dünyanın ələ keçirdi, şimpanzelər isə zooparklara və araşdırma laboratoriyalarına basıldı.
Bəs effektli iş birliyi qurmağı necə öyrəndik?
– Xəyal gücü ilə. İş birliyini qura bilirik, çünki xəyalımızda var olan şeylər haqqında hekayələr uydurmaq bacarığına sahibik. Buna istər ilahlar deyin, istər pul, millətlər, insan haqları və s. Uydururuq və uydurduqlarımızı milyonlarla digər insana yayırıq. Milyonlarla insan eyni hekayəyə inananda eyni qanunlara da uyurlar. Şimpanzelər bunu bacarmırlar.
Bu il çıxan yeni kitabınız artıq xarici dillərə tərcümə edilir, o nə haqqındadı?
– İnsanlığın gələcəyi haqqında ama kahinlik etdiyimi düşünməyin. Belə bir şey mümkün deyil.
yuval
Yeni kitabınızda nədən bəhs edirsiniz?
– Bəzi ehtimalların, imkanların və təhdidlərin izini axtarıram. Genetika mühəndisliyi və süni intellekt kimi mövzulara toxunmuşam.
Hansı ehtimalları görürsünüz?
– Tarixdən bu günə çox inqilab olub ama tək bir şey sabit qalıb – insanın özü. Osmanlı İmperatorluğu və ya qədim Misirdə yaşayan insanlarla hələ də eyni bədənə və zehnə sahibik. Ama gələcək illərdə, tarixdə ilk dəfə insanın özü radikal şəkildə dəyişəcək. Təkcə sosial və iqtisadi cəhətdan deyil, bədənlərimiz və zehinlərimiz də dəyişəcək.
Bu dəyişiklik necə olacaq?
– Genetika mühəndisliyi, nanotexnologiya və beyin-komputer interfeysləri vasitəsi ilə. 21-ci əsrin əsas məhsulları beyinlər və bədənlər olacaq. Gələcəkdən bəhs edərkən bizdən sonrakı insanların bizimlə eyni olacağını, sadəcə texnologiyaların daha yaxşı olacağını fikirləşirik. Lazer silahlar, ağıllı robotlar, ya da işıq sürətilə səyahət kimi. Ama gələcəkdəki texnologiyalar Sapiensin özünü dəyişəcək. Gələcəyin ən həyəcanlı hadisəsi də kosmik gəmilər deyil, onları kimin idarə edəcəyidir.
Bəs gələcəkdə indikində daha yaxşı, daha rahat yaşaya biləcəyikmi?
– Bu “biz” deyəndə kimi nəzərdə tutduğunuzdan asılıdır. 21-ci əsrdi insanlıq böyük ehtimalla texnoloji inqilablardan nə qədər faydalandığına görə siniflərə ayrılacaq. Bəziləri bundan çox qazanclı çıxacaq, bəziləri əziyyətini çəkəcək. Ötən əsrin bütöv hekayəsinə irqlər, cinsiyyətlər, siniflər və etnik qruplar arasındakı bərabərsizliyə son qoymaq mübarizəsi kimi baxa bilərsiniz. Xüsusən də Soyuq Müharibədən sonra bir çoxu bu məsələdə daha optimist idi, qloballaşmanın bütün dünyaya mərhələ-mərhələ rifah və demokratiya gətirəcəyini düşünürdülər. Hər kəs bərarabər haqq və imkanlara sahib olacaqdı.
Ama elə olmadı..
– Bu vəədin yalan olduğu bəllidir. Qloballaşma böyük cəmiyyətlərin işinə yaradı ama bərabərsizlik də kifayət qədər artdı. Dünyanın ən varlı 60 insanı yaşayan bütün insanların yarısından, yəni 3.5 milyard insanın toplamından daha varlıdır. Süni intellekt bu problemi daha da artıracaq, gələcək bir neçə il ərzində bir çox insan “işə yaramaz” vəziyyətə düşəcək.
Nə mənada işə yaramaz?
– İnkişaf etdirdiyimiz proqramlar sayəsində süni intellekt bir çox işi bizdən daha yaxşı görməyə başladı. Avtomobili daha yaxşı idarə edirlər, xəstəliklərə daha yaxşı diaqnoz qoyurlar. Yaxın 20-30 il ərzində kompüterlər insanın gördüyü işlərin yarısını görə biləcəklər.
Yeni işlər çıxmayacaq?
– Yeni işlər də çıxacaqdır ama bu problemi həll etmir ki. İnsanların iki təməl bacarığı var, fiziki bacarıq və informativ bilik. Robotların hər iki sahədə də bizi keçdiyini fikirləşəndə, yeni işlərdə də bizdən yaxşı olacaqları başa düşüləndir.
İqtisadi cəhətdən işə yaramayan milyardlarla insan bəs nə edəcək?
– Hələ ki bu problemi həll edə biləcək iqtisadi model yoxdur. 21-ci əsrin ən böyük iqtisadi və siyasi problemi budur. Süni intellekt insanların işlərini əllərindən aldıqca, pul və güc hər şeyə hökm edən kompüter proqramlarını idarə edən çox kiçik bir elit qrupun əlinə keçəcək.
data
Yəni bərabərsizlik daha da artacaq?
– Bir misal çəkim, bu gün taksi, avtobus və yük maşını idarə edən milyonlarla sürücü var. Özü özünü idarə edən avtomobillərdən sonra onlara ehtiyac qalmayacaq. Bu gün milyonlarla insanın pul qazandığı nəqliyyat sektoru sadəcə bir neçə şirkətin əlində cəmləşəcək.
Belə bir vəziyyətdə xaos çıxmazmı?
– Süni intellektin inkişaf etməsi ilə kütlələr böyük ehtimalla iqtisadi güclərini itirəcəklər, buna görə siyasi güclərini də itirməli olacaqlar. Yeni texnologiyalarla bərabər hökümətlər də artıq zəifləyirlər. Hazırkı siyasi modellərimiz sənayə inqilabına, 19-cu və 20-ci əsrin tələblərinə uyğun formalaşıb, 21-ci əsrin siyasi həqiqətlərini yansıtmırlar.
Yeni yüzillikdə bizi daha nələr gözləyir?
– Şirkətlər daha çox güc qazanacaqlar ama nəticə etibarı ilə güc insanlardan alqoritmlərə keçəcək. Ağıllı telefonlar bizi bizdən yaxşı tanıyanda kompüter alqoritmləri bizim yerimizə qərar verəcək.
Dünyanın sonuna gəlmişik ki…
İnsanlıq yaşadıqca “uydurmaq” önəmini qoruyacaq, çünki insan iş birliyi ilə ayaqda dura bilir və bunun da yolu ilahlar və millətlər kimi uydurmalardır. Ənənəvi dinlər və ideologiyalar yox ola bilər ama yerlərinə yeniləri gələcəkdir. Gələcəyin dinləri Yaxın Şərqdən deyil, Silikon Vadisindən çıxacaq.
Nə cür dinlərdən bəhs edirsiniz?
– Texno dinlər olacaq, texnologiyadan qidalanan, onunla formalaşan dinlər. Xoşbəxtlik, sülh, rifah və sonsuz həyat kimi vəədlər onlarda da olacaq. Ama o biri dünyada, ya da öləndən sonrası üçün deyil, bu dünya üçün vəəd edəcəklər. İlahi gücdən deyil texnologiyanın kömək istəyəcəklər.
Gələcək haqqında optimist, pessimist də olmaq üçün səbəb yoxdur. Realist olmaq lazımdır. Fantastikaya deyil elma ehtiyacımız var. Belə deyək, İŞİD, Ukraynadakı müharibə və ya qlobal iqtisadi böhranlar insanlığın inkişafında qarşılaşacağımız problemlərin yanında çox xırda olacaq.
Elmi inqilab mövzusu mənə də ilham verir. Elmin əslində nə qədər cahil olduğumuzu qəbul etməyi çox xoşuma gəlir. Tarixdəki ən böyük kəşf cahilliyin kəşfidir.
Ən son Altay dağlarından Denisova adlı fərqli bir insan növü kəşf edilmişdi. Başqa bir insan növünün də ortaya çıxmasını gözləməliyikmi?
– Təqribən 50 min il öncə dünyada 6 ayrı insan növünün yaşadığını hələ indi-indi öyrənirik. Ama böyük ehtimalla bu rəqəmdən iki dəfə artıq insan növü mövcud olub. Bu bəzilərimizə qəribə gələ bilər, çünki biz tək insanın “biz” olduğuna inanırıq. Necə ki, bir çox ayı növü varsa, bir çox insan növü də var idi, Neandertallar və ya Homo Denisova kimi.
homo
Neandertallar aramızda olsaydılar necə bir dünyada yaşayardıq?
– Bir fikirləşin, necə dinlər yaranardı? İncil nəyə bənzəyərdi? Yaradılış kitabına görə Neandertal da Adəm ilə Həvvadanmı törəmiş olacaqdılar? Yaxşı Neandertallar da öləndən sonra cənnətə gedəcəkdilərmi? Dünyadakı problemlərə bir də belə bir toqquşma xətti çəkildiyini düşünün. Xristiyanlar və müsəlmanlar, amerikalılar və ruslar, varlı və kasıb, bu bəs deyilmiş kimi bir də Sapiens və Neandertal.
*Qüds İbrani Universitetində dərs deyən tarixçi Hararinin əsas ixtisası orta əsrlərin hərbi tarixidir. “Dünya tarixinə giriş” dərsini deyərkən bu mövzuda sadə dildə yazılmış dərsliyin olmaması diqqətini çəkib. Bu səbəbdən də hər kəsin maraqla oxuya biləcəyi bir kitabın üzərində işləməyə başlayıb.
Kitab hazır olduqda İsrailin az qala bütün nəşriyyatlarından “yox”  cavabı alıb. Çətinliklə də olsa çap edilən kitab, qısa zaman sonra Qərb ölkələrində “bestseller”ə çevrilib. Facebook-un qurucusu Mark Zuckerbergin izləyicilərinə “Sapien”-i məsləhət görməsi kitabın populyarlığını daha da artırıb.
Abzas.net
 
Bastainfo.com 


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54 thoughts on ““Tarixdəki ən böyük kəşf cahilliyin kəşfidir”

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